tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8657344379515198783.post7072956360276932193..comments2023-11-05T02:19:13.411-05:00Comments on Airing of the Grievances: All Hail Joe Klein, All Boo the Media (JM)Dennishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12649848515867751444noreply@blogger.comBlogger1125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8657344379515198783.post-89427835003882587782008-09-05T11:14:00.000-04:002008-09-05T11:14:00.000-04:00Hey Johnny, I agree with all of your analysis and ...Hey Johnny, <BR/><BR/>I agree with all of your analysis and conclusions, and feel similarly enraged by the Republican's egregious attempt to disconnect the folk from reality. What's most enraging to me and maybe to all of us is that it works. Like Dennis, i deliberately avoided watching the RNC, but inadvertantly caught a snippet of Palin, which succeeded in zero time to piss me off.<BR/><BR/>My only issue is with your point that we can't debate whether life begins at conception or not. I believe we can debate this issue, but it requires a more sophisticated set of argumentative tools than those available for public debate and a knowledge of neuroscience to do so. <BR/><BR/>In a practical sense only, I agree that that argument is not something that could possibly take place in a political forum, but an argument exists, if only in my head at the moment.<BR/><BR/>The basic structure of the argument is that life ought to measured not only in terms of alive versus dead, and some philosophers of science have pointed out that "life" isn't even well defined still, but also in terms of degrees of consciousness.<BR/><BR/>I think we all implicitly act on the belief, empirically based, that consciousness increases with experience. For example, male infants are routinely circumsized without asking if this is okay with them, while an adult would never be subjected to such an involuntary procedure in most societies. One could argue that this is because the infant can't answer meaningfully, but I think the reason we think it's okay lies more in the sense that infantile amnesia will remove the consciousness of the deed within a short time.<BR/><BR/>Since there's almost no possibility that an embryo has consciousness of self, there is a far smaller degree of the aspects of life that we value in any being, which renders it less alive than a newborn or an adult. The lack of any meaningful mental life or awareness I believe is the heart of the issue.<BR/><BR/>For example, we sympathize with dolphins and find their capture along with tuna to be abhorrent. Why?<BR/><BR/>Of course, there's a slippery slope here, but then "slippery slope" is the name of a type of fallacy, not that of a valid argument.<BR/><BR/>There are some gaps in the argument, of course, as I don't want to go on all day about this, and it's somewhat repellent to frame things this way, but life happens and I think most of the objections only stand up if we suppose that we're able to obtain an ideal transcendence of the realities of life at this very moment.<BR/><BR/>Also, if there isn't some valid argument that makes, say, the morning after pill okay, then we'd all have to agree with the most rabid right-to-lifers, at least implicitly.<BR/><BR/>Of course, you also say that we can't make the empirical argument, and I admit that would require my additional premise, a more refined definition of life, including degrees of consciousness, to make adequately.<BR/><BR/>Apparently, then, I haven't taken issue with anything you've said. Well, I've written it now, so I'm going to post it anyway.<BR/><BR/>Glad to see you guys back in the fray!<BR/><BR/>Cheers!<BR/>GaryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com